Punjabi Music Discussions

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Is Harmonium a Punjabi/Indian instrument?

Postby rkahlon » April 8th, 2011, 6:00 pm

During the mid-19th century missionaries brought French-made hand-pumped harmoniums to India. The instrument quickly became popular there: it was portable, reliable and easy to learn. It has remained popular to the present day, and the harmonium remains an important instrument in many genres of Indian music. It is commonly found in Indian homes. Though derived from the designs developed in France, the harmonium was developed further in India in unique ways, such as the addition of drone stops and a scale changing mechanism.

A popular usage is by followers of the Hindu and Sikh faiths, who use it to accompany their devotional songs (bhajan or kirtan). There is at least one harmonium in any mandir (Hindu temple) or gurdwara (Sikh temple) around the world.

The harmonium is commonly accompanied by the tabla as well as a dholak. To Sikhs, the harmonium is known as the vaja/baja. It is also referred to as a "Peti" (A loose reference to a "Box") in some parts of North India and Maharashtra.

Our ancestors, basically, gurus, never used harmonium.

Technical concerns with the harmonium included its inability to produce meend (slides between notes) and the fact that, once tuned, it cannot be adjusted in the course of performance. The former prevents it from articulating the subtle inflections (such as andolan, gentle oscillation) so crucial to many ragas; the latter prevents it from articulating the subtle differences in intonational color between a given svara in two different ragas. For these reasons, it was banned from All-India Radio from 1940 to 1971.
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Re: Is Harmonium a Punjabi/Indian instrument?

Postby gbssungha » April 9th, 2011, 6:07 am

I may sound ignorant here, but mainu eh pata hee nahin see, ke harmonium gore lai ke aaye....
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Re: Is Harmonium a Punjabi/Indian instrument?

Postby rkahlon » April 9th, 2011, 2:04 pm

Hhmmm.....

Harmonium gained popularity because it is very easy to learn, probably one of the easiest instruments to learn. Araam naal baitho te ek hath di movements te concentrate karo. Hath vee nahin dukhde jaldi keete.

Harmonium de vich both hands di fine motor movements use nahin hundiaan. Your one hand is on the fan, the pakha, and only other hand is on keys. So, pakhe vaala hand does not need much fine hard work. And not even much concentration is needed. Dimaag vich vee pher use taraa baith jaanda.

Compared to this, piano, sitar, guitar, violins, sarod, santoor, tabla, flute etc. they all need fine movements and very good co-ordination of both the hands. Es lai dimaag vich ve us taraa baith jaanda after you learn the instrument.

Moreover, female singers all over North India and Pakistan, are trained with a harmonium. Ohna nu keha jaanda ke harmonium de sur/awaaz naal awaaz/sur milao. Now, this instrument does not have a soft sound. To match your voice with harmonium's, you need to put some undue pressure on your vocal cords. Hence almost all of our singers get trained with a heavy voice. Galaa use taraa hee train ho jaanda.

In south and even central India, females train with a 'sitar' primarily. They may get some training with harmonium, but do 'riyaaz' on 'sitar'. Lata and Asha's famous pictures are always with a 'sitar'. Sitar has a soft sound. And 'sitar' just gives a base. You do not have to match your voice with it.

Mainu sabh to zyaada hairaani hundi, whence did it come to be associated with sikh religion? We all know that gore arrived after Guru Gobind Singh ji in North India. Eh ek proof hai ke culture koi nahin sambhalda, time de naal banda easy cheezaan dekhda te ohi popular ho jaandiaan.
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Re: Is Harmonium a Punjabi/Indian instrument?

Postby bobbysandhu » April 13th, 2011, 10:14 am

This easily is the most informative post at PP. i had never known that Harmonium wasnt an indian instrument.. really an eye opener. Searhed a bit on wiki and found out that even the feet pumped organ is also a version of the harmonium.
feet pumped harmonium

and here is the inside of a feet pumped harmoinum
feet pumped harmonium

Your observation is very logical about northern and southern indian classical singers.. the difference in Sitar and Harmonium training.. and its very true when you think about it...

and even i wonder how it got associated with Sikhism..
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Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby anakhi » April 19th, 2011, 2:24 am

Is it Alam Lohar or someone? I see there are lots of versions of Challa and Jugni sung by Alam Lohar, Gurdas mann, Asa Singh Mastana/Surinder kaur.

Anybody would like to shed some light on this?

Thanks
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby bobbysandhu » April 19th, 2011, 10:47 am

Isnt it supposed to be Folk?

Baki Sukhjeet aunda hi hona... oh dasu
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby Nishaa » April 19th, 2011, 3:51 pm

i think Gurdas mann had sung this song
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby marjana_malook_jeha » April 19th, 2011, 3:57 pm

It goes this way...first ever challa was by Inayat hassan bhatti -> Alam Lohar -> GM
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor, Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby Gurdeep Bhangu » April 19th, 2011, 8:05 pm

@ Bobby Bhaaji, even its folk its always written by somebody.
Main ek vaar kise di interview vich suneya si ke folk oh hunda jehda ke kai genarations ton chalda aa reah hove, jisnu kai genarations ne gayeya, suneya hove as in the case of Challa & Jugni, and in most cases ohna de orginal writers vi bhull gaye hon ke kaun sann!!
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby Sukhjeet Brar » April 19th, 2011, 8:44 pm

anakhi wrote:Is it Alam Lohar or someone? I see there are lots of versions of Challa and Jugni sung by Alam Lohar, Gurdas mann, Asa Singh Mastana/Surinder kaur.

Challa saandalbaar ilaake da lok geet mannya janda hai !! jiste PP uppar special ikk topic vi hai
jyade jaankari layi oh parho !!

Jugni
isde uppar vi pp 'te khaas topic hai oh parho !!
jitho takk syaane mandde ne sufi fakeera 'cho niklya lok geet hai.... jisda "Peer mereya oh jugni kehndi aa, allah-bismilah meri jugni......" to andaaza laaya ja sakda hai .... jiwe kayi soojhwaan dasade ne lagbhag 500 saal purana lokgeet hai !!

Pakistan aur hindustani aneka kalakaara ne rajj ke eh dohwe lok geet gaaye ne, samay anusaar dujje fakeera de ya aapne hi nawe tappe bana ke vi eh geet gaaye ne... !!
ਮੈਂ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਗਵਾਰ ਹੂੰ ,ਬੱਸ ਕਹੂੰ ਤੂੰ-ਤੂੰ....
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby pvsDalli » April 20th, 2011, 10:46 pm

kya info aa sukhjit bhaji
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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby anakhi » April 21st, 2011, 3:23 am

Thanks for the info guys espically Sukhi Bhaji. Appreciate it.

Sukhjeet Brar wrote:Challa saandalbaar ilaake da lok geet mannya janda hai !! jiste PP uppar special ikk topic vi hai
jyade jaankari layi oh parho !!

Dhanwad Bhaji. Here it is for others if they would like to brush up on it:

challa-punjabi-music-da-nageena-t423-20.html

Btw, what is the meaning of "Challa"? Ring or the name of some person?

Sukhjeet wrote:Jugni
isde uppar vi pp 'te khaas topic hai oh parho !!
jitho takk syaane mandde ne sufi fakeera 'cho niklya lok geet hai.... jisda "Peer mereya oh jugni kehndi aa, allah-bismilah meri jugni......" to andaaza laaya ja sakda hai .... jiwe kayi soojhwaan dasade ne lagbhag 500 saal purana lokgeet hai !!

Pakistan aur hindustani aneka kalakaara ne rajj ke eh dohwe lok geet gaaye ne, samay anusaar dujje fakeera de ya aapne hi nawe tappe bana ke vi eh geet gaaye ne... !!


Here's the other topic
jugni-t1288.html

I'll also add a few other versions of Jugni here as well Alam Lohar, Arif Lohar, and a fusion by Arif/Meesha

Alam Lohar


Arif Lohar (mukhtar Sahota)


Arif Lohar/Meesha


Bollywood fusion ( a bit off the record)
Superchor Jugni


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Re: Who wrote/sang Challa and Jugni?

Postby bobbysandhu » April 22nd, 2011, 1:56 pm

Just a si said.. Sukhjeet is the right person to talk about such Matters :D
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Where is Savita Sathi?

Postby rkahlon » June 20th, 2011, 10:43 am

Our generation grew on her Punjabi songs telecast at the Jalandhar Doordarshan...

"nimmi nimmi been na vaja ve jogi"...

and many more. She sung for few Punjabi films. And now I do not hear anything about her.

I bet Ratnika Tiwari and Savita Sathi were two voices fit for playback singing in films.

Found only one song of her on youtube...the recorded in studio one. Many film songs are present, but she was not used well in films.
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Re: Where is Savita Sathi?

Postby nidhaan » June 20th, 2011, 7:19 pm

yes Savita Sathi da "gori dian jhanjran bulaundian paian" vi bahut sohna song jal doordarshan ton aunda hunda si..



Te Ratnika Tiwari da "kalian baghan di mehndi "te"mere ranjha pale paade"..which is present on you tube..on RatnikaTewari's Channel



bahut sohni awaz si dohan di...jithon tk mainu pta savita sathi tan bahut der punjabi film playback singer rahe ne..hun da nai pta.famous song gur naalon ishq mitha wz also sung by savita sathi..
ਬੋਝੇ ਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਦੁਖ ਦੇ ਸਿੱਕੇ
ਚਿਤਵਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਘੋਗੇ ਸਿੱਪੀਆਂ
ਕੋਕੇ ਕੌਡੀਆਂ ਬੰਟੇ ਪਾਕੇ
ਉੱਤੋਂ ਦੀ ਬਕਸੂਆ ਲਾਈ ਫਿਰਦੇ ......
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Re: Where is Savita Sathi?

Postby rkahlon » June 20th, 2011, 7:40 pm

And do not forget Ranjna...

"ni heeriye ni goriye, teri preet da maarya ne ranjha jogi hoya'...
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Re: Where is Savita Sathi?

Postby navtej_sandhu » June 21st, 2011, 6:59 am

Bahut acha lageya ke Rkahlon ji ne eh topic start kita & os bahut sureeli aawaz nu yaad kita jina ne punjabi gayeki vich bahut yogdaan paya hai.

Rkahlon ji, just want to inform U that Savita Sathi ji is very much intouch with me. She is in mumbai with her family. She is Savita Ghuman now :-)

You can find her LATEST songs on youtube by searvhing "ssavita ghuman (savita with double ss)". Sse has planned to launch her new solo album after a decade & believe me, wonderful songs she has sung in it !!
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Re: Where is Savita Sathi?

Postby rkahlon » June 21st, 2011, 7:18 am

Wow....it is so nice to hear that she is in touch with you. She is an elegant voice.

Very nice, I will def. listen to her new songs.

Navtej veer ji, can you please request her to get her songs from Doordarshan, the Punjabi songs, and upload on youtube. Ratnika Tewari has done that. Some songs are on youtube now.
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Re: Where is Savita Sathi?

Postby pvsDalli » June 21st, 2011, 7:33 am

great news Navtej bhaji :)
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Punjabi Music Queries

Postby bindi » June 27th, 2011, 4:31 pm

I am interested in any literature published specifically on Punjabi Music and its history. Can anyone point me in the right direction, titles of books, authors, literature, magazines etc. I would also appreciate it very much if anyone out there has access to or can identify any autobiographical material on Punjabi singers / artists from the 1900's to present day, which might be available. Your help welcomed. Bindi Kalsi
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